moderator actions
http://www.lonelygirl15.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=11713
Broken Kid says:
Posted: Sun Jun 24, 2007 1:18 pm
We have amended the Forum Etiquette, Rules, and Policies (with The Creators' approval) to add the section about moderators. From this point on, public discussion of moderator actions or moderator policies will not be allowed on the forum, and such posts will be removed.
Why are we updating these rules? Because being a moderator is not an easy job, and moderators are all volunteers. Sometimes the moderator has to be a bad guy, and a user may not like their actions. However, all too often public posts result in users piling on without understanding the issues which may not be appropriate to share with the entire forum. This not only diminishes respect for the moderator but reduces their power on the forum.
Moderators are fans, and often a moderator posts as a fan. But moderator actions such as splitting or merging a topic, deleting or editing posts, warning users, etc. are taken with the best interests of the forum in mind. Some users may not always agree with these actions, but that doesn't mean the actions where inappropriate.
We are also adding a new title: Moderator Manager. Trainer101 will serve as the Moderator Manager at this time. The Moderator Manager is a moderator with no additional powers on the forum; however, he will act as the first level of escalation for concerns about moderator actions. If you have a concern about a moderator, contact the Moderator Manager. He will review the action, compare it against the guidelines, consult with the forum administrator, and respond to the user. If the issue requires another escalation, it will go to the forum administrator, and if the administrator requires another ruling, he will take the issue to The Creators.
Note that this is not a unique rule. In fact, most other major forums have a policy against posting publicly about moderator actions. On LG15, the moderators are encouraged to post a message explaining why a thread is moved or locked, and even this is rare on other forums. Large forums with a significant number of users require that moderators' actions be appropriate and quick, without fear or public dissent.
If you have any questions or concerns about this, please feel free to contact me.
------
NOTE: It looks like a thread has been created for responses to the post above from BK
Argentina
Australia
Belgium
Bosnia and Herzegovina
Brazil
Canada
Chile
Croatia
Cyprus
Czech Republic
Denmark
Egypt
Estonia
Finland
France
Germany
Hong Kong
Hungary
India
Indonesia
Iran
Ireland
Israel
Italy
Japan
Jamaica
Kuwait
Latvia
Lithuania
Malaysia
Maldives
Mexico
Netherlands
New Zealand
Norway
Pakistan
Panama
Peru
Philippines
Poland
Portugal
Puerto Rico
Qatar
Republic of Korea
Russian Federation
Saudi Arabia
Singapore
Slovenia
South Africa
Spain
Sudan
Sweden
Switzerland
Taiwan
Thailand
Turkey
Ukraine
United Arab Emirates
United Kingdom
United States
Venezuela
Vietnam
Virgin Islands, U.S.
Posts
So, who watches the watchers?
ReplyDeleteWhat do you have against Trainer? I've never in my life seen him get out of hand or unjust.
ReplyDeleteDeja, I dont think thats what MM was implying LOL. "Who watches the watchers" is a well known L15 phrase.. All the same its interesting there is now one person who is in charge of the other mods..I'll be very interested to see if it works
ReplyDeleteWell first I would like to say, thank you to the necro mods and Creators for making it that much easier for me to NOT use the necro. This is exactly the type of tyrranical censorship bullshit that evidences a significant portion of the reason I do not use the necro in the first place.
ReplyDeleteNo feedback of any kind? No permitted criticism or discussion? Let's have fun everyone, as long as you stick to the script provided for you by Big Brother. And if you don't... well don't worry, your errors in judgment will be removed before they encourage anyone else to have an independent thought.
As for the mods being volunteer and not deserving criticism for their actions... shenanigans. If you volunteer for the responsibility, you take on everything that goes with that responsibility. If you don't have the spine to stand up and defend your actions when need be, and you lack a thick enough skin to let the rest fall off of your shoulders, stop wasting my time with your farcical display of authority. You get no respect from me.
I would only respond to say that every site has its rules, and this is one that will benefit the forum. Most other large forums - and many many smaller ones - have similar rules in place. There are plenty of opportunities for feedback with multiple layers of escalation.
ReplyDeleteIt's unfortunate, however, that those who dislike the forum will use this as another reason to express that sentiment.
Today the moderators are going to moderate the posts about the moderators moderating.
ReplyDeleteTomorrow the moderators are going to moderate the moderators moderating of the posts about the moderators moderating.
Say that fast three times, I DARE YOU!
I'm copying this because I feel that it would be a nice addition to this post Modelmotion. I sent this to Broken Kid's account on the forum, and where I am no longer aloud to post it on the forum, why not post it here:
ReplyDeleteThis is my only problem:
Our forum rules are heavily based on public debate and we have based our etiquette on public say.
While I understand why, I don't think banning public debate is the proper solution here BK. It actually feels more so like a "We're annoyed at people pointing out our faults, and we're annoyed because we don't like to be called wrong, so you aren't allowed to anymore."
And If you can recall, that was the BIGGEST problem on the forum so far with the mods, the simple inability to admit that there may have been wrong doing.
I just wanted to point out that what is reflected in your statement is EXACTLY the reason people bitched and complained about the moderators soooooo much.
Actually I kind of like this.
ReplyDeleteNow if a person has a problem with something a mod did, they can pm the mod directly to discuss it.
It will make all the mods that much more accountable for their actions, and it will keep everyone else from ganging up.
I want to know exactly why other forums doing this makes it okay? LG15 has always been about creativity, being different. Using other internet forums as an excuse to do it here is downright shameful. Be original, its the lg spirit.
ReplyDeleteWhere'd my comment go!!! It was a similar lighthearted one like Joe's :( I didn't know the blogspot was moderated as well...
ReplyDeleteOmg... never mind that, I'm a dumbass. I realized I hit the "preview" button and not "publish" LOL. It was something about the Moderator Manager being a moderator moderater moderating moderators moderating. Or something, nevermind...
ReplyDeleteSince the original thread is locked, I started a discussion thread in the same forum section here: http://lonelygirl15.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=11741
ReplyDeleteOne issue is differentiation between discussion of specific "moderator actions" and general discussion of "moderator policy." It looks to me like Broken Kid's posting in the Concerns & Complaints section goes further than the actual text of the rules change that he links to ... so that needs clarification.
I would like to add that I have found Broken Kid very reasonable in the past, and have had no issues at all with any forums moderator actions.
ReplyDeleteBut I do love it when Perky gets riled up and says things like "shenanigans" and "farcical." I love an eloquent toothy rant.
So I guess I still have mixed feelings.
Ah, why can't just everyone be a considerate, well-spoken, obeying-all-rules, always-making-the-right-decision, never-doubting-authority moderator? Life would be a Hymn of One and All and finally everything would have its Order...
ReplyDeleteQ - BK is very reasonable until he gives you the generic "I will handle it" type msg.
ReplyDeleteHe gets his mind made up, and there is no way to back him up until you out right humiliate him.
Anonymous, the statement you just made is one which would reasonably (in my opinion) be deleted from the forums. It is non-specific bashing (that's enough) but even worse, it is done anonymously. There is no way to evaluate the veracity of your statements.
ReplyDeleteI am arguing in favor of moderation that allows general discussion of moderator policy, and for publicly asking questions and getting replies to specific issues in a dedicated forum ... but that does not mean allowing for bashing and disruption in the context of moderated threads on other topics.
We have no stated policy at all on this blog, and are unlikely to adopt one given the point of view of the main figures here, but if we did, I would not hesitate to delete a comment such as the one you just made.
I'm not saying you are right or wrong in what you said, or that I have not done the same thing at times. I am suggesting that you be specific if possible, and at least be not anonymous.
As is, you have left no path to resolution of the issues you raise.
I feel safe sending this because we all know they have no idea what to do with it. I'll deny everything under questioning.
ReplyDeleteSSd2ZSBsZWFybmVkIHRocm91Z2ggcmVsaWFibGUgc291cmNlcyAodGhhbmsgeW91IE5pa2tpKSB0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The previous comment, while unfortunately anonymous, does provide a satirical look at moderation guidelines... here is the translation for those interested but too lazy to convert from base64 to ascii:
ReplyDelete-----
I've learned through reliable sources (thank you Nikki) that the reason for keeping guidelines confidential may be because of LG15 Forum Penal Code Section 19.03 Capital Offenses, items E-J, which might be detrimental to the image and stability in power of the good people serving us voluntarily. Here's what I was tipped off to.
[quote]
19.03 E: The public and PM "redflag" record of the user must be kept updated at all times, and monitored periodically for Capital Offenses. Anyone with 3 or more redflagged PMs is issued a friendly reminder, and a prospective termination officer ("watcher") is posted at the user's local Reverse IP Resouce Identification Provider (RIPRIP).
19.03 F: If anyone under prospective termination watch starts asking too many questions, be that in public or through PM, termination procedures are initiated, with the creators reserving the option to, upon review of the case, grant a 2-day leniency period for the user to post their goodbies before termination.
19.03 G: The real reasons for termination should never be made public, and the watcher should make sure the user always says that they're leaving because they're too busy to keep up with the series or they've lost interest.
19.03 H: During this leniency period, any dissenting or incriminating post is to be removed and punitive termination is effective immediatly. Legal and Operations are notified.
19.03 I: Termination is executed by the "watcher" storming the user's residence who are then shot in the head. No silencer is ever needed. Put the body in the trunk of the Lincoln.
19.03 J: Punititve termination is similar, except Legal is to issue libel suits to the surviving family of the offender, and local authorities are notified to guarantee they all lose their shirts.
[/quote]