Who Owns 12 in 12?

Once upon a time there was a fan on comments who had a wild idea:



QtheC March 2nd, 2007 at 2:49 pm
Dear CREATORS,

I just had a great idea, an idea I know everyone will love, (unless they are jealous and brain-washed by the Order). My idea is :

24 videos in 24 hours!

Yes, kind of like the TV Show 24, or some really unwise drinking games from college, you would post a video every hour on the hour for 24 hours, each one moving the story along in real time.

If this is as great as I imagine it could be, you could plan such an “event” periodically to generate a lot of excitement in the LG15 fan community, and at the same time, give the story some milestone points that everyone can start to anticipate. End some big story threads, start some new ones. A few big KAPOW! moments when everything changes.

Periods between these “milestones” may or may not be considered “seasons” - but I wouldn’t want things to get too regular, just enhance anticipation… your storytelling friend.

Yours Truely,
QtheC

...and there was lots and lots of talk about the idea. Fans debated how it could be done and how many videos could be used to make it a practical idea.


24 in 24: How can it be done?
by immortal1 on Wed Apr 11, 2007 1:16 pm

Not my concept but I love it! It's basically showing 1 episode per hour for a 24 hour period.

24 episodes advances the story a lot. I think it needs to be one self contained story that occurs in real time. In other words all 24 episodes would take place the same day ala the TV show 24.

That is still probably too ambitious, I think 12 in 12 might be better representing the daylight hours or the nighttime hours.

The story would have to provide the reason for uploading every hour. I'd introduce a plot device called a "ticking clock" which is basically a race against time. An event occurs in the 12th hour that the heroes need to achieve or prevent.

I think as the story stands there are 2 big obstacles 1)there is no B plot and 2) all the characters are together. If you had a B plot with it's own characters running parallel to the main story you could do a crossover with characters from both storylines uploading their own vids. Bree, Daniel, Jonas, Alex, the Order and say a character from the B plot. 2 vids per character puts you at 12 vids. Or as the story winds up they can start to meet up 2 at a time until they are all in a vid together. You'd obviously have to have more than one crew going together at the same time.

Here's the best part, an event like this would give the fans an opportunity to invite friends over to watch or meet up and watch the vids in groups at local organized fan meet ups.

Ok maybe this is the best part-I don't see how sponsors or advertisers wouldn't be all over it.

The bottom line is it can be done.

The idea became so popular it became codified as a Breeniversism.



..and then one day that idea came into beeing when the Creators announced 12 in 12 and there was much happiness in the Breeniverse and all enjoyed the Season 1 finale.

But then one inquisitive fan wandered off to thier local Trademark web site :
Clicked on "Search"
And then on "Free Form Search"
And typed in "Lonelygirl15:
And to their suprise guess what they found:



And then with one click more, all was revealed:




Who knew the Creators have filed for a Trademark for 12 in 12? I thought that was a fan idea?
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modelmotion said...
My understanding is that a legal trademark comes into existence when a "mark" is first used in interstate commerce and the owner of said mark intends to protect it as a trademark of their product. The registration of a trademark helps in the enforcement of the trademark but it only applies to the specific area(s) of commerce where the mark was used (e.g., entertainment, apparel, etc.). The first use of 12 in 12 in commerce was probably August 3, 2007, so in that regard the Creators (Miles Beckett, Mesh Flinders, Greg Goodfried) did nothing illegal. However it would have been better if 12 in 12 had not been trademarked because this has the effect of stifling creativity since no other maker of a video series (immortal1, Q or other wise) can now use that name, or any other similar name, that could cause confusion in the marketplace as to the owner of the video series.
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Anonymous said...

Someone posted the story on digg.com - here's a tinyurl link:

http://tinyurl.com/2hl52n

Everyone go there and digg it!
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Note: For a full discussion of 24 in 24 and 12 in 12 go here.

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EDIT by QtheC:

Just a couple of notes about this article. I just read it and a PM about it, but did not write it.

I appreciate Modelmotion taking the time to give credit to fans who contribute ideas, and it's nice when the Creators give shout outs, etc. I thought it was cool the way they included Voyboy in the finale and when characters mention specific fans (as Jonas did in the summary video leading up to the finale for the "Camp Play" solution). But I don't think it is fair or reasonable to expect credit for everything we, as fans, suggest or think was our idea (most ideas are not as original as we imagine).

In the case of the finale event, and 12 in 12, the thought did occur to me that it would have been nice to see fans credited with the idea in some of the announcements leading up to the event. It was a little odd not to at least make a general statement that this was a fan-based idea, given the Creators' past habits of demonstrating their interest in being responsive. But the truth is, I have been touting my own horn about this idea for so long, that it's kind of absurd for me to ask for even more recognition. I posted ::::: 24 videos in 24 hours™ ::::: as well as ::::: Gemma vs. Bree Kung-Fu Fighting™ ::::: and a few others such things many times. The little ™ symbol was really a joke just because I had posted the same thing so often.

One thing this article missed was the first occasion when the Creators heard and acknowledged the idea. That happened during the Mixed Media Live show with Miles, Greg, and Jackson on April 11, 2007, when I posted the "::::: 24 videos in 24 hours™ :::::" in the chat window, and the Miles mentioned it on the air, when he reacted to chat comments saying "I love the 24 in 24, people are talking about 24. You guys are amazing. So you want us to do 24 videos in 24 hours... you realize that we would literally die..." and "I don't know how we could physically ever do that. I like the idea." and Jackson said "I like it too, I'm down." That was fun. I have the audio saved because I was going to make a video (and still might) to include some funny things Jackson said "Luv2Luvem, that's hot" and "Being in love with Erica M Rocks takes up most of my time."


Also, in fairness, I was the one that posted the phrase on the "Breeniversisms" page, giving myself credit there as well.

So this is what I think about this. If you post something online, it pretty much becomes public domain. It is kind of a silly thing to trademark, I think, but maybe that was needed for the Creators' deal with MySpace since there was some associated graphic/ad work - I don't know. It does make me think they might plan to do more "12 in 12" events, which is a good thing.

I don't agree with the suggestion in some of the comments on this article that it would be fair to make a legal claim against the Creators for making some use of an idea that was posted on their website by a fan asking them to do just that. And I don't think a posted Terms of Use on such a website is necessary for this to be true, though it is probably a good idea for them to protect themselves with some such legalese. This is how I feel about it, whether it is legally correct or not. Otherwise, fans could post every possible story-related idea they can dream up, and the Creators would have to either avoid everything posted, shut down the website, or negotiate with each fan who happens to post something close to what they intend or later choose to produce.

I do not claim any kind of "ownership" of the idea. Serial programming and serial storytelling is nothing new. See Charles Dickens, for instance. The media has changed from periodic magazines to online videos, making a "real-time" emulation possible, but that's a matter of technology, not really a fundamental concept in storytelling. There are a multitude of prior art examples.

I don't expect direct credit or a shout-out every time I throw an idea into the ring and something later occurs that seems to be, but may or may not actually be the result. It's cool for me that this idea had enough traction that some others, such as Immortal1 ran with it with his forums posting, others chimed in, and the Creators responded by making use of it. I have no problem with them doing what they did or making money from their show. Making deals and money is what allows them to continue producing a show that most of us consume for free. If you think they are getting rich from this show, you are probably mistaken. But if they do, at some point, finally cash in, they will have earned it by their own efforts. It is a difficult and admirable thing to create a business from scratch, and even harder to find a way to make it succeed.

It would be nice if the Creators, in the press related to the finale and in interviews, etc., would mention generally that this idea of videos each hour came from fans originally.

But while I do operate here as a fan under the pseudonym "QtheC" or "QuinceTheCarpenter" ... that's also just a fictional entity, and not the real person behind that online entity, so what do I, the man behind the Q, really care about credit? If I did make a claim, it could be humorous trying to prove I am the real "QtheC."

By the way, I hereby retract any request for 24 in 24. As Immortal1 suggested, 12 at a time was more than enough. For the Lonelygirl15 season 2 finale, I want 12 videos, 4 per day for 3 days.

::::: 12 in 3 for LG15 F2™ :::::

(sorry this is so long and repetitive - I'm too lazy to be concise)

Additional EDIT by QtheC:

Note on August 5, 2007, Miles posted this on the forum:

I played a major part in the 12 in 12... I decided to do it because you guys suggested it, and I wrote the whole thing with a couple other writers.

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Greg said...
Hey everyone,

So, first of all, of course it was your suggestion for us to do 12 in 12. It all came from QtheC suggesting a 24 in 24. Very cool. We thought it was an awesome suggestion and we did it because we knew you guys would love it and we want you to enjoy the show.

For legal reasons, and so no major corporation could take the idea that we spent a ton of time and money executing, we trademarked it. It was our attorney's suggestion (I don't practice law anymore, thank God).

Oh, you should know that Miles and I credited you guys with coming up with the idea in the all the interviews we did... whether or the not the reporters chose to write that was out of our hands. We do what we can. I'm sure you know (as we've learned) that reporters write whatever they want... just ask Amanda who we mention in EVERY interview and never makes print.

Thanks.

Greg