The "why Gina is still alive" thread

by Renegade
on Sat Jun 07, 2008 9:33 pm

Jonas said "I don't feel a pulse!". Several people have openly criticized the way he tried to take the pulse, he was in a hurry, and the pulse may just have been weak. Jonas is not medical personnel. This alone is not proof Gina was dead. In fact, one would assume if the group itself, including Jonas himself, had taken Jonas's assessment as proof, they would all have accepted Gina as dead by the time they posted their videos. The fact that they apparently consider Gina's footage proof only shows that they themselves did not take Jonas's problems to feel a pulse as proof of her death.

One could argue that, if the TAAG thought Gina might still be alive, they would not have left her behind - but, on the other hand, do you think they would have left her dead body behind, unless they had to? Dead people can't carry bodies, no matter live or dead. They all knew they would be dead if they stayed. They had no choice but to flee quickly, leaving her behind.

Salinas said "I brought you a gift, brought to us by our new [?] Carl here. I present to you, Lord Carruthers: Footage. Proof that one of our enemies has fallen.". Three things weird/of note about that scene:
Most obviously, he does not specify "Gina", although both he and the Elder would very most likely know her name - especially if Salinas knows them well enough to hide "TAAG" on his website.
The Elder did not take the footage. When the Elder left Carl and Salinas, Carl still had Gina's footage, which shows Gina going down. Point being: If Gina's footage was supposed to be the evidence footage, why did the Elder not take it with him? This leaves the possibility open that the evidence footage is Sarah's footage (or something else, maybe shot by Carl or other Order members after the TAAG left), not Gina's, and that Carl retrieved the other footage for personal reasons, for example to show the TAAG that he was very conflicted about his decision.
The fact that video is used as evidence in the first place. Let's mentally go through the events:
Order-SWAT stormed the place. Daniel says they cleaned up the place afterwards. It is reasonable to assume the SWAT team did not leave before the Cleaners arrived. Thus, Salinas knows the TAAG did not remove Gina's body, simply because the area was under Order control. We also know that, 'cause they would have told us if they had Gina's dead body.
BUT if nobody removed Gina's body, if she was really dead, the Order, and thus Salinas, should be in possession of her body. (Because it would have been left at the house, and the Order controlled the house and cleaned it up)
...so why doesn't he show it to the Elder? Why does he praise the puny little video that is only half-evidence (showing her go down, but not showing wounds or blood), if he should have her dead body in the fridge?
The only logical explanation is that he doesn't have a dead body. Assuming the area was SWAT-controlled, Gina could also not have fled if she awoke later.
The only explanation remaining for Salinas's behavior is that he captured Gina alive. Whether he's using the footage of her to prove her death anyway, or he's proving Sarah is dead to the Elder, is immaterial to that - if Gina was dead, Salinas could show Carruthers her corpse. He doesn't. That only makes sense if he doesn't have it. And that means, she is alive.
(Counter-argumentation could be "Then why doesn't he show live Gina to him?". I acknowledge that question and I have no answer. However, given that we, to my knowledge, have no proof of Dr. Hart's demise either, it's possible he put the two back together, revived the Hart Study, and is planning to secretly build is own army of trait-positive girls, without the other Elders' knowledge.)

Lastly, as mentioned above, no matter what Salinas says, the video is not "proof" at all. We see Gina fall down, yes. But we do not see blood, and neither do we see wounds. It's entirely possible she was simply knocked unconscious. In fact, given that there is no smoke visible in the post-raid footage, Daniel's idea of a "smoke bomb" going off is clearly false. However, from the sounds and the camera shaking, we know something did go off. Did I mention there exist concussion- and stun grenades?


Let me finish by stating quite clearly that I am not denying the possibility that Gina is dead - but given episodes like The Unthinkable Happened, where the question of if somebody was dead, and, if yes, who, was clouded as well and only resolved later, and the very persistent course of the Creators not to make a definite statement in any way, shape or form, I think jumping to conclusions and assuming Gina is dead, with so many details not fitting, is just unreasonable.

That's my opinion. What's yours? Did you notice more details not fitting? Can you disprove my points? What's your take on the "Gina's dead!" claim?

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http://lg15.com/lonelygirl15/forum/viewtopic.php?f=68&t=17614