Clarifications and Answers to Questions for TSIY2
From: http://inside.lg15.com/2009/09/21/clarifications-and-answers-to-questions-for-tsiy2/
Hey everyone,
We are really excited to be doing TSIY2 and can’t wait to see the amazing pilots people come up with. We put out our rules a few weeks ago over at LG15 there have been some requests for clarification about the rules. I went through and answered the first couple waves of questions and a couple users have added a series of new more detailed questions they would like me to answer. I want to thank these users for asking a lot of good questions and I’d like to take this chance to do my best to answer the remaining questions. Below are the answers. I want to note that a good amount of the questions are very specific legal questions asking a bunch of “what if” questions pertaining to the contractual relationship between EQAL and the winning producer. I cannot go into those detailed questions here because the answers are unique to the specific winning producer. If my failure to provide specific answers to those questions makes any producer unwilling to submit his/her pilot, I understand. However, we hope that you trust that we will honor our end of the bargain, be good partners with the producer, and do our best to make a very successful TSIY2.
Site Features: Regarding the website, as previously discussed the new version of LG15.com will launch in time for producers to submit their pilots on October 1st. The website will receive new features, upgrades, and technical support that is consistent with all other EQAL websites.
Legal Issues:
Question: On a previous question about retaining rights, you said “We will be acquiring the rights so the producer cannot submit the show places without our consent.”; is that limited to the particular pieces of content created for TSIY2, or does that extend to the characters and additional mythology created in support of it, i.e. would EQAL fully and exclusively own the rights to the characters of the winning show? (Thus blocking continuation of the series independently.)
Answer: EQAL will be the owner of all IP in TSIY2. We are NOT doing this for personal benefit. We are doing this because all characters in TSIY2 will become canon to the LG15 Universe and those characters need to be built on by the community in TSIY3, 4 and so on. We will be using a Creative Commons non-commercial share-like license for all of the LG15 content, including the content we acquire with TSIY2. Therefore, we need to have ownership so that those characters will be part of the canon and new producers can build off of them under our license to the LG15 Universe.
Question: Once the winning show is over, will there be any remaining/future liabilities for the winning team, or does the contract just end?
Answer: They will have to send us all the video files - we will send them a hard drive and paid postage. After that, no further obligations or liabilities.
Question: Given that TSIY shows are officially canon, how would credit be handled in potential future plots which use characters or plot elements created by the winning team? e.g. would there be “Based on characters created by…” credit? Or is all of that swallowed when EQAL obtains the rights? (This is of importance even if EQAL does not plan to continue LG15 or to touch upon TSIY storylines, because future TSIY teams might do this.)
Answer: We will give credit to the Producers of all TSIY shows based on our contract with those producers. Those contracts are private and confidential.
Question: You have had 16 days to look into the IRS issue. What tax-status will the $5000 have?
Answer: The winning team will not have to pay taxes on the $5,000. All further details will be discussed with the winning team.
All further questions in the Legal, Organization, and PR issues are too specific to cover in this general setting and those issues will be dealt with between EQAL and the Producer and are covered by the private and confidential contract between us.
OpAphid & Nikki Bower:
Question: Which exact “version” of OpAphid and other related characters can/should be used? Should any post-LG15 character developments (e.g. RE88) be disregarded, or should the characters as they stood after their full storylines (e.g. after RE88) be integrated?
Answer: You should use the version of OpAphid that ends with Nikki Bower saying they are missing and haven’t been heard from in weeks. Nikki Bower’s statement can be regarded as canon and you should not use any OpAphid character developments that happened as a result of RE88.
Question: In the past, we were explicitly told not to regard Nikki Bower Reports as canon. Nevertheless, Nikki Bower had important roles in several high-profile LG15 episodes, making the character itself canon. In that light, how should writers treat the information from “Following the Drugs - NBR Investigates”, in which Nikki B. states “OpAphid is missing and hasn’t been heard from in weeks. And Tachyon and Brother… they’re missing too.” as well as “Tachyon, Brother, and OpAphid, they were the only people watching Bree’s videos”. Should this be regarded canon LG15 information and thus form the starting point for any TSIY storyline not based on RE88 events, or should this be disregarded like other NBRs, and the teams are free to make up their own explanation of the characters’ absence (with Glenn’s help)?
Answer: See above.
Question: While we’re on the topic, is Nikki B. eligible for TSIY storylines?
Answer: Yes, Nikki B. the character is eligible but I have no idea if Nikki B. the actress is available. That is up to her as it is up to any other actor to participate in TSIY2.
Question: What is the process for incorporating “OpAphid assets” in TSIY? For example, will EQAL or Glenn provide, say, the voice of OpAphid, or is the cooperation limited to “only” Glenn himself (as in, no Mari, no Op/Tachyon actresses)? How does a producer go about determining what is possible and what is not?
Answer: This is going to be up to Glenn and the Producer. I would tailor your pilot to make sure it can exist only with “Glenn himself” but have ideas for how to incorporate OpAphid’s voice if that is what the Producer wants to do in case Glenn can arrange that. This is all between Glenn and the Producer.
Thanks again to LG15 Today for all the good questions. At this point, I won’t be answering any more general questions in this public setting. If specific producers that are going to be 100% percent making pilots would like to ask me follow-up questions, they can do so by sending me a private message at any of our sites - Level26.com, GetCookin.PaulaDeen.com, HarpersGlobe.com.
Greg
::::: Greg answers previous questions about TSIY-2
::::: The remaining questions that we asked Greg to answer.
Argentina
Australia
Belgium
Bosnia and Herzegovina
Brazil
Canada
Chile
Croatia
Cyprus
Czech Republic
Denmark
Egypt
Estonia
Finland
France
Germany
Hong Kong
Hungary
India
Indonesia
Iran
Ireland
Israel
Italy
Japan
Jamaica
Kuwait
Latvia
Lithuania
Malaysia
Maldives
Mexico
Netherlands
New Zealand
Norway
Pakistan
Panama
Peru
Philippines
Poland
Portugal
Puerto Rico
Qatar
Republic of Korea
Russian Federation
Saudi Arabia
Singapore
Slovenia
South Africa
Spain
Sudan
Sweden
Switzerland
Taiwan
Thailand
Turkey
Ukraine
United Arab Emirates
United Kingdom
United States
Venezuela
Vietnam
Virgin Islands, U.S.
Posts
While Greg gets an A for effort, and at least a B for style, from dodging the site defect question (again), over refusing to answer universally applying legal and organizational questions, to claiming the question "will there be a press release?" is too specific to answer, this was just another version of the previous refusal to answer many of those questions.
ReplyDeleteI mean, he answered what? 9 out of 28 questions? 4 of those from the last block?
Weak, uninformative, and still refusing to publicly commit to anything. And thanks to universal gag orders for everyone, we'll never know whether EQAL actually contractually binds itself to do anything but shell out the money. For all we know, the winning series could be pulled after two episodes and the team is stuck producing eight weeks of content for nothing, maybe having to pay hundreds of thousands of dollars in punitive damages after accidentally missing a deadline.
Oh well. At least the OpAphid thing is settled.
Thanks, Greg, for the follow-up details! Personally speaking, I would love to see how the OpAphid characters influence the new storyline, if the winner takes it that way!
ReplyDeleteFor those questions that Greg didn't answer specifically, I would recommend those who are submitting videos contact Greg directly as he requested.
seems like helpful additional information from Greg.
ReplyDeletei don't think anyone in the history of the world has ever answered a question to the full satisfaction of renegade. :-)
Renegade = pathetic
ReplyDeleteInsult me all you want...I'm not the one supporting community members ending up in a one-sided contract.
ReplyDeleteHas EQAL committed to broadcasting the show at all? No.
Has EQAL committed to broadcasting the show the way its creators intend it to be? No.
Has EQAL committed to promoting the show? No.
Has EQAL committed to fixing the website if necessary? No.
EQAL expects the winning team to sign a contract to legally bind them to produce predictable results for EQAL.
The winning team is required to produce 8 weeks of content.
The winning team is required to get all the paperwork to cover EQAL's ass.
The winning team is required to hand over all rights to their creation.
The winning team is required to deliver the content at times set by EQAL.
It is very clearly defined what the winning team is required to do after it wins, yet EQAL consistently refuses to outline what, if anything, the contract requires them to do, other than handing over those 5000 dollars.
Why are you so hellbent on ensuring that the winning team gets fucked over, anonymous?
if anyone has questions regarding legal stufff, they should contact greg directly. how many times does that point need to be put across.
ReplyDeleteI wanna say to give Greg a break, Renegade, but I know you won't do that until he buys you lunch and you get to pelt him with questions and such in person. I understand the importance of open public discussion, and I think it's great that this site allows that. But really, it's difficult to respond to all these things publicly. Many of these issues are probably dependent on what the video producer wants to do. And many legal issues of ownership and compensation are best kept between the parties involved. So I would recommend that producers and contest entrants address those questions to Greg, while issues like dealing with OpAphid, website improvements, etc. are great public discussion points.
ReplyDeleteIt is not totally clear why so many things need to be dealt with in private. One would think that most of the questions being ask are fairly generic and do not really involve any need for secrecy.
ReplyDeleteThat said Eqal is a private company and can conduct its business as it sees fit. However, while some of the information is informative and Greg did try to answer some questions this discussion has fell well short of the open dialogue that was originally suggested. In the end that hurts TSIY because only with open dialogue can the community work with Eqal to ensure its healthy development into the future.
This need for things to be conducted in private has been at the root of many of the TSIY problems and one would have hoped that we would have learned from history. There are still a lot of questions about the actual design of TSIY and how it might be better constructed to promote community development.
Broken Kid said...
ReplyDelete"Personally speaking, I would love to see how the OpAphid characters influence the new storyline, if the winner takes it that way!"
Greg said:
"Answer: You should use the version of OpAphid that ends with Nikki Bower saying they are missing and haven’t been heard from in weeks. Nikki Bower’s statement can be regarded as canon and you should not use any OpAphid character developments that happened as a result of RE88."
There are two ways to interpret this and it is still not clear which is correct. I think everyone can agree on the "missing" part but when it comes to any attempt to move the story or character development forward then things are not so clear. I guess the only people who know for sure are Glenn and Eqal and without further clarification I guess TSIY-2 producers will just have to make a best guess effort on how to proceed with the caution given by Greg:
"This is going to be up to Glenn and the Producer. I would tailor your pilot to make sure it can exist only with “Glenn himself” but have ideas for how to incorporate OpAphid’s voice if that is what the Producer wants to do in case Glenn can arrange that. This is all between Glenn and the Producer."
In the end, all this is doing is taking down the level of the content TSIY will be receiving. No creator in their right mind will willingly give away their content for $5,000. So please please please only use canon characters. OH wait, you probably can't get those actors because most of them have moved on to better things.
ReplyDeleteGood luck creators. PLEASE don't be stupid.
The use of former characters (canon characters) certainly helps build and retain a substantial audience. Is it too late now? Would people come back. Or, will it take a new, truly innovative direction to build its own audience. It is not going to be easy in this over saturated media world.
ReplyDeleteWe have seen a delightful small community develop in support of The Last but growing any community is hard. Moving the original story line forward might achieve that but it does not look like that will happen. Perhaps we will get some great cameos in TSIY-2.
What is more problematic are the fundamental problems with the concept itself and how it affects the community. We can only hope that someone can develop a show that will overcome the problems and either draw old fans back or generate new ones.
"No creator in their right mind will willingly give away their content for $5,000"
ReplyDelete-taken from someone who clearly does not know the first thing about the entertainment business.
everyone should just put their trust in EQAL. don't worry.
ReplyDeleteseriously though, anyone interested in entering probably will dig around enough to understand the pros and cons, and the uncertainties. its like buyer beware. sold "as is" etc etc.
e.g., since glenn is going to be a judge, i guess that a pilot which included tachyon getting a sex change operation and looking just like apotheosisAZ and cracking jokes about scientology and lucy is unlikely to win. now, i'm unlikely to get an answer to that question in advance, so I.... I mean someone would just have to take their chances.
5,000 dollars should give them first rights to publish your character, but not complete ownership, meaning you couldn't use your characters in another setting after they become lg "canon".
ReplyDeleteHowever, if you're creating a character specifically for this series, I don't see what the problem is.
Todd McFarlene created the character Venom as an adversary for Spider-Man. When Todd left Marvel, they kept the character, and rightfully so. Venom has no place in another universe.
If you look at it as work for hire then $5000 at 20 dollars per hour is 250 hrs of work. Now at that rate you might not want to give away your genius screen play that you plan on turning into a feature movie but it is a nice opportunity for someone interested in LG15.
ReplyDeleteIt just would be nice if the entire process was more transparent and responsive to the need to grow a community around the show.
That is interesting CtrlAltDelete.
ReplyDeleteIt was nice to see some interaction for a change,even if the answers were a bit evasive.
ReplyDeleteAl doth I do understand the cause of such evasiveness, at least a few more general answers couldn't have hurt.
I can only hope this can lead to a bigger interaction between us and Eqal, which would no doubt improve the quality of the franchise. The Last is a fine example of what can be achieved when the fans and Eqal work together.
Hopefully if this TSIY is conducted better then the last one (to which the answering of our questions would surely help) then the result will to be even better.
But I think I may be expecting too much...
Bronzegolem you are totally right. The community has a vested interest in making sure that this works out right. There are a lot of good ideas floating around and all it would take would be Eqal to open up to a true partnership with the community to turn them into reality. When you have to wait weeks for answers that barely answer the core questions then you are not going to get far in a world that travels at twitterspeed. Throwing out partial answers and then slamming the door shut to future discussion is not going to get you far....... but then again Eqal already has their 5 million in venture capital funding.
ReplyDeleteI can not believe the delusions of entitlement regarding this.
ReplyDeleteIf you're entering this contest, you're getting paid $5000 for your work FOR Eqal. These questions of ownership etc. are pretty ridiculous. Have any of you people ever had an actual job? When did anything you did at work belong to YOU and not the company you work for? Reality check here people.
We're talking about submitting a work based on and considered to be part of Eqal's innovative and copyrighted material from the get-go.
If someone has to pose these questions, they need to go be innovative on their own and not have to piggyback on Eqal's material.
Honestly, what planet do you kids live on?
"Will you ensure the site actually works this time?"
ReplyDelete"Will there be a press release when the new show starts?"
I fail to see how the answers to these questions must be kept private, BK.
I mean, ultimately, we'll fucking see whether there'll be a press release or not. We'll know the answer in January.
So refusing to answer the question in advance reeks of an unwillingness to admit that no, once again, EQAL does not plan to do anything to promote the winning show outside of the community.
And I don't know how many times I have to point out that, if content is uploaded a week in advance, then that automatically rules out direct responses to the community in content.
If a show plans to do interaction with the community, that's pretty important to know. So, again: What is the deeply personal and show-individual aspect of "no, there will be no exceptions to this rule" or "yes, in some cases, you can post an answer to the community immediately"?
Same goes for general questions about punitive damages, missed deadlines, timezone issues, etc., etc. Are you honestly claiming that The Last got a totally, entirely different contract than The Misfits would have gotten?
You can't tell me that you honestly believe Team A's contract may be written in a way that makes missing a deadline a breach of contract, but Team B's would be different.
All this "omg, it's private! we can't say anything!!!" bullshit is a cop-out to cover a likely deeply one-sided and unfair contract, nothing more.
I mean, what kind of business tactics are these? "We will want you to sign a contract that requires you to do all sorts of stuff, but we refuse to give you the details beforehand and we won't require ourselves to do anything. You'll just have to trust us not to screw you over."
If the contract was actually fair and included positive aspects for the winner, EQAL would have no reason to cover that up. "We'll treat you fair and you'll get in writing that we won't screw you over" is fucking positive PR, after all.
@anonymous: At your "actual job", did you not inquire what requirements your employment contract stated for your employer?
Would you have signed the contract if your employer's answer to everything in the interview process had been "we can't tell you that, but we promise we'll be nice!"?
And for the record, just because your concept of time seems to be lacking...if I write a character "John Doe, Resistance Leader" before I submit my content, then I write that character in my own spare time, on my own accord - not under EQAL's contract. As such, your entire "When did anything you did at work belong to YOU and not the company you work for?" is void, and your "reality check" shows a lack of reality on your end.
I would work for EQAL from the moment I sign the contract after I won. After the contest. Not when I dream up my characters a month before. Those characters would be mine. As such, the question of whether they'll be signed over later was a very valid one.
"I can not believe the delusions of entitlement regarding this."
ReplyDeleteThere is a big difference between entitlement and community involvement. This is not an employment contract or there would be tax to pay.
As we understand it there is also a difference between ownership of a "character" and "ownership of a story" as was suggested earlier. Perhaps someone could clarify how that normally works.
From the sound of the current agreement any creator would be prevented from spinning off a popular character into a new story of their own creation. Then again as Milo points out the agreement is "buyer be ware".
milowent said "since glenn is going to be a judge, i guess that a pilot which included tachyon getting a sex change operation and looking just like apotheosisAZ and cracking jokes about scientology and lucy is unlikely to win. now, i'm unlikely to get an answer to that question in advance, so I.... I mean someone would just have to take their chances."
ReplyDeleteTachyon should be so lucky. I'm far too mellow to consider entering.
Question answered.
I think they've done a good job answering questions and honestly have answered a lot more than I would have expected.
ReplyDeleteI really don't know what is so hard to understand. Make your own LG15 videos and if they like it, they'll give you $5,000 and put it on their web site.
ReplyDeleteRenegade makes excellent points, especially with the press release issue.
ReplyDeleteIf one considers coming into contract with Eqal is because one believes they can supply with certain things you could not obtain when working alone, other wise people would just do their one independent fan series, like many have done in the past
When working with Eqal one expects them to provide you with a site in the format the fans enjoy and to promote your show to bring in the fans.
And by this time the next show needs promotion, the fan base gets smaller and smaller with each show, as the disappointments build and fans leave.
I wouldn't put much effort into making a show if I thought it would just be watched by, say, 20 people.
When let down in the past it is hard to trust into the future. Asking for a few assurances looking into the future only seems prudent. Eqal should understand that.
ReplyDeleteJoe said...
ReplyDelete"I really don't know what is so hard to understand. Make your own LG15 videos and if they like it, they'll give you $5,000 and put it on their web site."
A M E N!
If it was as simple as throwing a video up on the internet there would be a lot more hit shows.
ReplyDeleteThat's true, mm. Making a decent video series can be tough.
ReplyDeleteBut...creating a series of one-dimensional characters with no depth running from a guy in sunglasses should be easy enough.
Especially since the background is already established and a full audience is almost guaranteed.
For 5,000 dollars and no control of your character beyond the initial series, I wouldn't expect any masterpieces anyway.
This contest is for fans who have a bit of themselves invested in the series. This is for the fans as well as a cheap way for the C's to keep their show on stage. I couldn't imagine a serious filmmaker touching this one with a ten-foot camcorder.
@joe and anonymous: If that was the deal, it wouldn't be hard to understand. But the deal is a different one. The deal, instead, contractually binds the winning team to deliver a certain amount of content until EQAL-chosen dates under EQAL's terms and conditions, with the threat of being in breach of contract looming over the winning team's head, official admission that EQAL might make you change your story if they don't like it, with no reassurances at all that EQAL will just broadcast your series in its entirety without funny business.
ReplyDeleteMore than one person has noted how several The Last videos seem to mysteriously have run directly against new HG videos.
It's a known, undeniable fact that "Only a life lived for others is worth living" was randomly delayed on the front page for no reason at all. It appeared on YouTube on July 24th - so there's no debate it was supposed to be seen. Yet, mysteriously, it only appeared on lg15.com on July 27th.
It's no coincidence I asked about access rights and content posting procedures more than once. EQAL insists on having the power monopoly over posting on lg15.com, and yet, they are unwilling to, either contractually or publicly, guarantee to the competing teams that they'll treat and broadcast their creations reasonably. As it stands, the winning team submits their content, and it'll be a question of luck, other obligations and probably moon phases when and if the content appears. It might be at the correct, planned time, or maybe take a few more days. Who knows. But hey, trust EQAL. When did they ever screw the community over? (When, again, is the second deletion of all content on lg15.com?)
It's just not that simple. Not because we decide it isn't, but simply because we have been shown during TSIY that EQAL is negligent and unreliable when it comes to managing both the PR as well as the technical aspects of TSIY shows.
Why trust in someone who has proven for six months they can't be relied upon on this issue?
The Last have shown that members of the community can make a very solid show. What we are all concerned about is ensuring that any show made gets the proper logistical and marketing support it needs from Eqal.
ReplyDeleteThe embeds are definitely central to that and that was a huge missing factor in TSIY-1. That has now been corrected. With Harper's Globe out of the way we are less likely to see the type of behavior from Eqal that many noted during TSIY-2 in terms of releasing competing videos simultaneously. However Eqal could well have another show to promote by the time TSIY-2 gets launched. What we all want is for Eqal to give TSIY-2 a fair shot coming out the gate and bring as much marketing power to the table as they can muster.
So, if we are a bit "defensive" it is not without reason and it all comes down to everyone in the community (and one would hope that includes Eqal) working together to make sure the show is all that it can be.
I will never understand some of the members of this "community", and their constant crusade to find fault with Eqal.
ReplyDeleteAfter the whole TSIY-1 ridiculousness, I remember Greg posting this:
"We imagined that you, the community, would submit shows like lonefox, the facility, the coalition . . . shows that many of you are already doing for fun as a creative outlet in your spare time. We never imagined that at any time any applicants would be "giving up their day job" or produce a show that would take up their whole life. We imagined this as something that many of the talented creators in this community were already doing in their spare time, after school, or on the weekend and that your production teams would be made up of family and friends (just like we were in the beginning)."
This was Eqal attempting to pay tribute to the community and their fans. This was an attempt to give something back. With a surprise $2500 prize, this was supposed to be a great thing for the community.
Every single submission to TSIY-1, except for The Misfits, approached this contest in the spirit it was intended. Everyone, except for The Misfits, knew that this wasn't a paying job. That some have tried to infer that The Misfits were somehow misled into thinking they would be receiving that kind of money is completely absurd. If Eqal had the money for a full production, they would have continued on with The Resistance!
Common sense please!
All of these questions and malicious accusations are an attempt to make TSIY-2 into something it isn't and never was intended to be. If someone wants to submit for TSIY-2 and needs some clarification or has a particular concern, they can contact Eqal. What goes on behind the scenes really isn't any of the "community's" business.
As I have mentioned multiple times, both the questions regarding how the site will work as well as the question of how interaction will work with the automatic one week delay directly touch the entire community, not just the winning team. That alone renders your post void.
ReplyDeleteThe thing is, I think, you are mixing up TSIY and TSIY2. The whole community show-off, creative outlet, etc. stuff was true for TSIY. And it was treated that way (except for the Misfits stuff).
TSIY2 is different. Look at the things EQAL/Greg actually did say or answer. TSIY2 is all business. Contracts, deadlines, release forms, intellectual property ownership...
EQAL has changed the tone and spirit of TSIY.
And we have to adapt to that. TSIY1's rules were simple:
"If your pilot is chosen to be the featured content on LG15.com, it will become part of the LG15 canon. You will be asked to assist in the creation of one piece of content each day, Monday through Friday. This will require at least 2 videos per week, plus additional content such as pictures, text blogs, and interactivity. Other members of the LG15 community and EQAL may also contribute to the creation of the featured content."
That's about it. Sure, there was that hilarious paragraph about EQAL, of all people, checking your plot for consistency, but nothing serious. It was light-hearted, it was creative, it was fun.
Now look at this round.
Look at all the emphasis on having someone who can legally enter a contract, on the deadlines, on IP ownership, etc. EQAL focuses on the legal aspects, so we focus on the legal aspects.
And if you focus on the legal aspects, you will see that, so far, EQAL has committed to nothing but paying those $5000.
They write out requirement after requirement after requirement for the winning team, but none for themselves. Show me the spirit of EQAL giving back to the community in all the contract conditions we know of.
In addition, I might add, you are (maliciously?) ignoring the situation as a whole: We've been through this once already.
Questions like what they'll do to promote the show or whether they'll fix broken site aspects come up because we have seen how EQAL abandoned the community and the winning team during TSIY1.
We have seen how a glaring, functionally impairing bug still isn't fixed 207 days after being reported.
We have seen how EQAL randomly delayed video releases so that they fit their own life, schedule and business best.
We have seen how they have done nothing at all to promote The Last outside of the community, and even only minimally within the community.
We're not asking this shit because we want to make EQAL look bad. We're asking this shit because this is how EQAL operated last time.
The way you post, one would think we are supposed to ignore all the problems of TSIY1 and learn nothing from it.
It's not our fault EQAL's behavior utterly sucked during TSIY, and it's not our fault EQAL is shifting the focus to legal aspects.
We're just responding in kind and looking out for those with less attention to detail.
Case in point: The video "Close Call". In it, Chasina thanks FP, BronzeGolem and PatTheDog for finding the map to Bray's pub. Three days after they did so.
Under the new rules, that kind of video is impossible to make. Period. All videos have to be up a week in advance.
One of the main focuses of LG15 has always been interaction. EQAL just killed a main avenue of interaction. And you chastise us for asking about that?
"What goes on behind the scenes really isn't any of the "community's" business."
ReplyDeleteCommunication requires a two way flow of information. The goal of this discussion has always been to make the most of TSIY. We need Eqals full cooperation to do that and clearly they let us down with TSIY-1. No one, not even Eqal, benefits by letting that happen again.
renegade said:
ReplyDelete"EQAL has changed the tone and spirit of TSIY."
Nice projection. Greg answered the questions as they were asked. Eqal hasn't changed a thing unless it was to address the questions from the "community" (renegade and modelmotion). The small group here who has made it their "mission" to be critical about everything Eqal and TSIY changed it. These questions did not come from anyone submitting to TSIY 1 or 2. All of this is a reaction to The Misfits debacle, who were the only group who submitted to TSIY-1 who convinced themselves that they would get a full production budget if they won. You can deny it all you want but it's the truth.
That you would complain about Eqal not having rules clearly outlined, and then once again complain when Greg and Eqal address some of your complaints is par for the course I guess. Nothing will ever be good enough. Amanda has already learned that lesson and soon, so will all of Eqal. There won't be a TSIY-3, and this "community" 's small group of complaining brats isn't important to Eqal's success.
modelmotion said...
ReplyDelete"Communication requires a two way flow of information. The goal of this discussion has always been to make the most of TSIY. We need Eqals full cooperation to do that and clearly they let us down with TSIY-1."
The "communication" would be done between Eqal and who is submitting.
The only thing Eqal did in TSIY-1 to let the "community" down is listen to it and choose The Misfits. What The Misfits did after that let EVERYONE down. That Eqal was ever blamed for The Misfits convincing themselves that they would get a production budget that Eqal had already admitted they didn't have for The Resistance, was ridiculous.
As for The Last, they aren't complaining. The only ones complaining are the few who've always been complaining.
Nothing new.
Kay:
ReplyDeleteNot sure why you keep bringing up The Misfits.
The number of ways Eqal let us down during LG15: The Last have been extensively discussed already so there is no need to explain that all over again. Just read the multiple discussions here and on Anchor Cove if you want details. The goal here is to ensure that those same mistakes are not made again. To achieve that we invited Eqal to discuss the various issues of concern and that is the open dialogue we are talking about. Not closed channel private discussions, but a free and open exchange of ideas to make TSIY-2 better.
Oh, I've read the discussions.
ReplyDeleteI've read terms like "stakeholders" and "vested interest" and other various delusional concepts. The whole entitlement issue never goes away when it comes to a few people.
No one who entered (except for The Misfits) had one complaint about TSIY-1 last year. The ones that were the most vocal when The Misfits dropped out, who made false inferences and accusations, are the same ones doing the complaining again. I keep "bringing up the Misfits" because it was The Misfits' unprofessional and underhanded behavior that was the catalyst for the negativity surrounding TSIY. The Last never had a chance.
But, then again, The Last group aren't complaining. There have been statements made on this blog blaming Eqal for delays that The Last have admitted were due to problems on their end. Eqal has been blamed for not doing a myriad of things that were never stated to be part of TSIY-1 in the first place.
Sigh, why do I bother.
My posts are a complete waste of time here, and I know that. Not only have The Creators moved on with Eqal projects, they have also moved on in another way. I am positive that the few very vocal, very negative and accusatory members of the "community" (psst, there is no community anymore) have done their best to take the FUN out of LG15 for Amanda, Greg and Miles.
I started watching lonelygirl15 when the 3rd video was posted. It was evident that for at least 2 of the 3 years since that time, The C's ENJOYED creating lg15. As a fan who pathetically still holds out a miniscule glimmer of hope that they will develop new breeniverse content, I read the complaints and crap that is put on this blog and really just want to shake you people. The negativity just sucks out every last remaining iota of joy The C's may have had for lg15. How can you then blame them for not caring anymore?
The "community" has shot itself in the foot, and unfortunately, it keeps pulling the trigger on itself.
The "community" has done nothing to make Amanda, Greg and Miles WANT to do anything lg15 related. The "community" didn't "make" Eqal, contrary to what you believe modelmotion. These people (along with Mesh) created something innovative and spellbinding, and instead of doing anything to show appreciation for that creation, or even a bit of sentimentality, anything lg15 related is now anchored with negativity.
As someone not in your "community" who appreciated lg15 for what it was, the deluded self-importance and condemnation of anything Eqal makes me sick.
As a lawyer Greg would probably strongly agree with the notion of "stakeholders" influencing business. It dates back to the Warren Supreme Court (1974) that felt that it is important for the impact of a business on all "stakeholders" to be taken into consideration. To pretend that decisions made by Eqal do not have an impact on the community would just be wrong.
ReplyDeleteFor example, way back in the day after a world wide comments boycott lasting several days Greg agreed to an IRC chat to discuss how things could be improved (this was after the public one that was pretty much chaos). When Greg failed to deliver on that chat a lot of people just threw in the towel and stopped following lonelygirl15 and that in turn created certain divisions within the community.
When a company fails to treat all stakeholders with the respect they deserve it does have a huge impact. When EQAL makes decisions that negatively affect TSIY it has a huge impact on the community. We are valid "stakeholders" and I think Greg would agree that we have every right to state our opinions. They in turn have every right to ignore them, but in the end it is the community at large that suffers, not just Eqal.
Now in this case we have already had an impact on improving TSIY. All we ask is that dialogue continue publicly, because once contracts and NDAs are signed you can pretty much be certain that the signatures to such documents will give up their rights to talk about this publicly.
No one who entered (except for The Misfits) had one complaint about TSIY-1 last year.
ReplyDelete- have you looked at the number of views that LG15: The Last has received. Don't you think that if Eqal had done their part fairly a good show like this would have had a lot more views?
- have you looked at the number of people still on LG15.com? The low numbers are in large parts due to flaws in design of TSIY. What we are suggesting here is an open dialogue into how to improve the design of the show so that it attracts more people back to LG15.com.
- We are not trying to take anything away from the contribution of Mesh, Miles and Greg. They indeed gave us the show. However over the years they have made some very questionable decisions. If you look back to my open letter to Miles in January of 07 you will indeed see that it talks about developing the site into a social network, so even at that time we were trying to suggest improvements that were perfectly reasonable. Many others have had creative ideas and suggestions that have been totally ignored. There is a great deal of collective wisdom in this community and to try and harness that wisdom and direct it towards improvements to TSIY seems like a perfectly valid goal.
How about you actually back your claims up for a change, kay, and explain, in detail, how the fact that we complained about issues in the past automatically invalidates new complaints? Or, instead of lumping us all together, actually address what an individual poster actually said?
ReplyDeleteI'd also love for you to show how the fact that Greg answered 9 out of 28 posed questions somehow means "Greg answered the questions as they were asked".
I mean...you're manufacturing your case here. You pretend we keep complaining no matter what Greg does, yet brush over the fact that we keep complaining no matter what Greg does because Greg doesn't actually do anything.
If Greg had just answered the questions, we'd have no need to ask anymore.
Instead, he insists issues like "will there be a press release?" are ultra-secret individual, case-based matters that must not be discussed with the community so we will never, ever know the truth!
...except, of course, on January 11th, when everybody sees whether there's a press release or not anyway.
But hey, he's totally making sense and honestly answered the question, right?
The fact that he's transparently evading the questions with ridiculous excuses is totally not grounds for unhappiness. Shame on us for not falling for his cheap PR tricks. *rolls eyes*
renegade, you have absolutely no "vested interest" in TSIY-2. You aren't entering, you never entered TSIY-1, and from all of your verbose, accusatory and inflammatory posts that I am sure most people just skim over or ignore all together, you sure give off the impression of being a hostile and miserable individual.
ReplyDeleteGreg answered what he answered. The tone and wording he used was in response to the tone and wording in which the questions were asked. You can attempt to manipulate words to suit your hostile purpose all you want.
As for your back it up crap, I won't sit here and type a long-winded novel ala renegade citing examples of Eqal bashing, false accusations, projection of fault, and self-important demands for things to which there is no entitlement. This blog is full of them. You seem to have a lot of time on your hands -- go read.
The fact is the few in the "community" who are the most vocal are the most belligerent, disrespectful and self-entitled (consider yourself at the top of the list).
Eqal is now in the position to do what they want. They do not "owe" anything to you or to anyone else who watched their shows. The suggestion by the few of you that you are entitled to anything is absurd and pathetically naive. The only reason Eqal would have for continuing lg15 is if they WANT to. The unappreciative complaining has given them every reason NOT to want to.
BOTTOM LINE.
If you are entering TSIY-2 and have questions that haven't been addressed, you can e-mail Greg for your answers. If you don't like the answers, don't enter.
modelmotion said...
ReplyDelete"As a lawyer Greg would probably strongly agree with the notion of "stakeholders" influencing business...etc etc etc."
"have you looked at the number of views that LG15: The Last has received. Don't you think that if Eqal had done their part fairly a good show like this would have had a lot more views?"
And you ask me why I keep bringing up The Misfits?
Eqal did what they said they would for TSIY-1 and more, giving the winner a cash prize. If they had the time, money and interest in making TSIY and lg15 related content their priority as some of you are demanding, they would not have bothered with TSIY and continued The Resistance.
As for Greg really caring about the little group of complainers, he's giving you more answers than you deserve. This blog and little group with delusions of entitlement are not a priority for him and Eqal. LG15 was Amanda's "baby" for most of lg15 and all of The Resistance. I've read on this blog that her being pregnant and giving birth were the cause for not being active with anything lg15 related. The truth is Amanda check out before then, and what happened with TSIY-1 and The Misfits and the consequent projection of blame onto Eqal was the final nail in the coffin.
@kay: I guess the fact that the very first sentence of your reply again tries to counter me by countering model's phrasing speaks for itself.
ReplyDeleteYou'd have a lot more credibility if you did more than rant "they are evil, they are evil, believe me!!!" to no end.
And of course you won't back your stuff up. After all, it's just a bunch of ranty lies, straw men and obvious falsifications of the history of this issue. Actually proving anything you said would go against the spirit of your replies.
But hey...I'm sure the gods of irony are very pleased with you.
"I've read on this blog that her being pregnant and giving birth were the cause for not being active with anything lg15 related. The truth is Amanda check out before then, and what happened with TSIY-1 and The Misfits and the consequent projection of blame onto Eqal was the final nail in the coffin."
ReplyDeleteIs "Amanda check out before then" based on a public statement made by Greg or Amanda? If so what is the link?
If on the other hand it is based on private communications it is important to remember that every one who has worked with Eqal is probably subject to an NDA which prevents them from making public the full story. If Amanda wants to publicly clarify on the record she is welcome to do it but to be fair why don't they allow everyone to do the same? Even if they did however Eqal is in a unique position in the web video industry and many people would probably not be willing to talk openly.
That said TSIY-2 is more than selecting a "winner". TSIY-2 is a web series that will engage some in the community for weeks as the show plays out. That requires the cooperation and participation of many in the community from chat to helping out with web issues. The goal is to make TSIY-2 the best it can be and for that to happen we need an open an continuing dialogue with Eqal.
Again, look at what Miles himself said:
"Greg and I are going to make a concerted effort to be better about communicating with you guys about what we’re doing with LG15. We aren’t perfect and sometimes we get incredibly busy with everything that we are doing with EQAL, but we understand the need for better communication and will do a better job."
Perhaps now would be a good time for that live chat with Greg. Might help drive some submissions and we could talk about TSIY in general and how it can be improved in the future.
ReplyDelete