Have The Streamy Awards Sold Out?
In the last couple of weeks there has been a lot of controversy over the Streamy Awards. There are several key issues at stake that will no doubt be fiercely debated over the next year. We will have plenty of time to discuss these issues which revolve around the very purpose of the Streamys, the role of the web series community and the influence large studios and companies such as Tubefilter exert over them.
However one issue would appear quite simple. A so called "geoblocked" show is only shown regionally until the "geoblock" is removed. This is akin to a nation state controlling the internet within their borders except it is a corporate marketing decision made to maximize the profits for the company that owns the show. Now there is no harm in profits. It is the very life blood of growth for an industry. And without profits we will have few web series to enjoy.
However here we are talking about an award show for web series on the World Wide Web. Or, are we? The notion of giving such an award to a show that is deliberately restricted to a regional market simply flies in the face of the spirit and intent of the World Wide Web which is to share information around the globe.
It was therefore a surprise when today the Streamy Awards organizers released a statement making shows that are only available to viewers on a regional basis eligible for the Streamy Awards. This means that shows that have not been fully present on the World Wide Web can win an award before the have met the very basic spirit and intent of the World Wide Web.
Why would the Streamys make such a decision. It might be too simple to say that it was to placate the desires of companies such as Sony and CBS that use ice age concepts to market their products. We totally understand the need to make certain marketing decisions but that does not mean they should be rewarded. The World Wide Web means something. It means information is available around the World.
No one is saying that a show that was at one time geoblocked should never be eligible for an award. What we are saying is that they should only become eligible after such techniques to restrict the free flow of information on the internet have been removed.
mm
See related discussion on Anchor Cove: http://forum.anchorcove.net/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=2558&start=110#p18170
See related discussion on Newteevee: http://newteevee.com/2010/01/15/streamy-awards-keep-geoblocked-shows-in-the-game/
See related discussion on Streamy.org: http://www.streamys.org/2010/01/15/streamys-eligibilty-geoblocking/
Argentina
Australia
Belgium
Bosnia and Herzegovina
Brazil
Canada
Chile
Croatia
Cyprus
Czech Republic
Denmark
Egypt
Estonia
Finland
France
Germany
Hong Kong
Hungary
India
Indonesia
Iran
Ireland
Israel
Italy
Japan
Jamaica
Kuwait
Latvia
Lithuania
Malaysia
Maldives
Mexico
Netherlands
New Zealand
Norway
Pakistan
Panama
Peru
Philippines
Poland
Portugal
Puerto Rico
Qatar
Republic of Korea
Russian Federation
Saudi Arabia
Singapore
Slovenia
South Africa
Spain
Sudan
Sweden
Switzerland
Taiwan
Thailand
Turkey
Ukraine
United Arab Emirates
United Kingdom
United States
Venezuela
Vietnam
Virgin Islands, U.S.
Posts
oh please...MUST there always be drama?
ReplyDeleteWho gives a crap if a show is blocked in a country? It's a creator's right to choose where and when (s)he wishes to show their content. IT'S THEIR CONTENT. They created it. Let them show it the way they wish.
And don't give me any crap about it not being 'in the spirit of the world wide web'. The web has ALWAYS been geographically limited.
When you wrote this article in English, you were essentially geoblocking it from non-english speaking countries.
And yes, I'm aware they can translate it if they wish....
likewise, they are ALSO able to rip a video from an allowed IP, and repost it in their country themselves.
Geoblocking is by its very nature something that will and HAS always be around.
People are just NOW making a big deal about it because NOW shiny trophies and popularity are involved.
No one is questioning the right of a creator to do what they want. In fact I fully support that. They are quite free to do what they want. I will even watch the show if it is available in my region.
ReplyDeleteHowever we are talking about an award show for web series on the World Wide Web. If the creator chooses to geoblock they do so of their own free will. That does not mean that the so called Academy needs to reward them for such actions. And if they do, said Academy does not represent mm.
...mm, come on. The Academy doesn't 'reward' them for geoblocking. The Academy awards shows based on quality.
ReplyDeleteSo you're saying if they choose to geoblock, then the Academy should punish them? That makes you completely contradict your first point.
Making a geoblocked show eligible before the geoblocking has been removed is rewarding them.
ReplyDeleteThe show may be very good. It may even be a potential Streamy winner. However if it is not fully participating in the World Wide Web it should not be considered until such time that the geoblocking is removed.
yeah...I know if you say stuff in an authoritative way, it's suppose to make your point SOUND correct, but you still are not making any sense.
ReplyDeleteYou completely just proved my point by using the tired World Wide Web argument.
Do you need me to copy/paste the above post?
Making a geoblocked show eligible before the geoblocking has been removed is rewarding them.
...No. It's not. Again...you seem to have this weird idea that geoblocking is outlawed. It isn't. Most people don't give a flying crap. You presented this sentence like it was a statement, however you provided ZERO reasoning as to WHY.
The show may be very good. It may even be a potential Streamy winner. However if it is not fully participating in the World Wide Web it should not be considered until such time that the geoblocking is removed.
...again, you make blanket statements without ANY reasoning whatsoever. And NOTHING online is 'fully participating in the World Wide Web' , because NOTHING on the internet is universal. There are geographical limits on everything. Such is life.
The core concept of the www is to share information world wide. It is as simple as that.
ReplyDeleteIf a producer or company chooses to regionally block their content it is simply not making it available on the world wide web.
If you want to call them the Streamys USA, or the Streamys Europe then fine. But, what exactly do we as a community want the Streamys to represent?
Damn, there goes the World Series. You're hung up on a name. And to say that the core concept of the www is to share information world wide is to be honest, antiquated. The web is a distribution vehicle and has a multitude of capabilities that grow exponentially every day. Some of those capabilities grow by means of allowing users to monetize their content by using an ever growing array of tools that might include geo filtering. Btw, filtering could be relevant in terms of royalties, piracy, guild issues, language issues, ad nauseum. It's also not really fair that these global shows are in English as the North Koreans can't really hear it in their native language either. Then again, they can't see it given their access to the internet or lack thereof. NOT FAIR. Let's boycott the Streamy's until North Korea is free to watch!
ReplyDeleteWhy is it anon's always sound so rude?
ReplyDeleteAs to geoblocking? What if next year, a web series producer decides the best way to monetize his show is to create a subscription site? We have seen this to an extent with at least one web series that was available exclusively on iTunes for purchase. Also, to analogize it to mainstream shows, HBO is a subscription service, if one does not have cable one cannot watch True Blood (legally), yet I guarantee it will be up for an Emmy.
Geoblocking and subscription services are not, economically speaking, that different. In each case a decision is made to limit access for economic reasons, but I do not think either should be used to limit one's ability to be recognized for one's creative achievement.
Unfortunately on this point, I am siding with the Anonymouses. The Streamys core rewards structure has been thus far that a show is eligible for a Streamy if it has released 3 episodes on the internet in a calendar year. There is no specifications on if that is limited to just one country or area.
ReplyDeleteTo say geoblocked shows are ineligible is like saying a film isn't eligible for awards if it had only a limited release. Certain awards shows have those kinds of structures...this one does not and is opening stating it does not. No matter how much you don't agree with it, you were not the one to design the rule structure in this instance.
Suggesting changes is fine, but dismissing that your suggestions were heard but politely turned down and given reasons why seems like a waste of energy.
You are incorrect. If you read carefully what i have said here and else where I do not support the censorship of content by nation states. The fact that a show was blocked by China for example should not exclude it from the Streamys. That is a totally different issue. What the www does provide us with is a world wide platform and that should be respected by the Streamys.
ReplyDeleteIt is not a matter of excluding shows. It is only a question of saying that they will become eligible when geoblocking is removed. The issue is similar to some of the tactics that Microsoft tried to use to dominate the www. Those tactics were rejected by the web community and the Streamys should follow suit by rejecting geoblocked shows until such time that they are willing to make their shows available globally.
Geoblocking and paid subscriptions do appear on the surface to be similar. However a closer examination shows they are inherently different.
ReplyDeleteIf the subscription service is available world wide then the contend would be considered to be available on the www. The only block is an economic choice of whether the consumer can afford it or not. That is quite different from the regional concept that geoblocking uses to limit access to the content on the www.
So if I understand correctly you think the Streamy's should use their 'influence' to force major players like Crackle to give up geolocking their videos. This point was made in the recent NewTeeVee article. Unfortunately, I don't think the Streamys have that kind of power.
ReplyDeleteYes, it would be nice if web series were freely available everywhere and perhaps if the IAWT is looking to take up issue advocacy, this can be one they can adopt, but ruling a series out simply because it made the decision to limit its audience for whatever reason, would be a mistake. A show should be judged based on its creative merits not its economic decisions.
If it is on the internet is should be accessible on the www. If it is not accessible it is only available on an regional "intranet" not the internet itself. Hence by the Streamys own rules a geolocked show is not eligible and they have incorrectly interpreted their own rules.
ReplyDeleteShow me one place where the "internet" is defined as within the territorial boundaries of the USA or any other nation state.
Disallowing geoblocking would be financially hamstringing content creators from recouping their investment or earning a profit. In my view, that's far worse than chasing some ideal. And sorry for being rude, I'm just fed up with this perspective being pursued everywhere. It's just a not well thought out argument. What is the relevancy of geofiltering vs. not filtering in terms of creation of web content. I would propose that in addition to it not being mentioned anywhere in the rules, it's also a view that does a disservice to the industry as a whole at a time when web content is losing key buyers due to a lack of means of recoupment or models to profitability. For this "industry" to succeed as a working model and by working I mean content creators earning a living or at least not having to pay for their content out of their pocket, for advertisers to allocate money to web content other than in their "experimental" budgets, etc, we need to find ways of monetizing content and that means using all the tools available to us such as geofiltering. BTW, technically anyone can obtain the content if they want to by using proxies to avoid geofiltering if that helps.
ReplyDeleteThe fact that you're hung up on a name is just too simplistic and unrealistic. The WWW was created by scientists to communicate with one another and not for commerce or personal use. You're argument is with those that named it, not with those that now claim it. You're measuring users intent which is not related to any technology regardless, as internet content will never be available globally. Just ask the Chinese. So this is not about what can and can not be done, but with ideals and whether someone despite the barriers to dissemination, at the very least made a futile attempt at doing so globally.
ReplyDeleteI don't think modelmotion is just hung up on the semantics of the "international" nature of the academy. But I am. I want to see some actual international representation. That's just been my opinion since it's inception.
ReplyDeleteI also want to see a geoblocked webseries involving bikini carwashes and deli sandwiches. Get busy Hollywood! I WANT MY BIKINI DELIVERED SAMMICHES DAMMIT
Crackle can do what they want. That is their business.
ReplyDeleteWhat the Streamys need to decide is what they are. If they want to be an award show for web series on the World Wide Web then the should respect what the World Wide Web stands for.
If they want to be a regional show for the USA, then so be it. I will leave that choice up to the Streamys and Tubefilter. However I will say that if they choose the latter a lot of people in the community around the World will begin to look for alternatives. That is how the free market works if you ignore your core audience.
The www is inherently different from industrial age media. This is really a choice between staying in the "information age" or stepping back into the past.
The contend creators made their choice when they geoblocked. They have the option to not do it. No one is forcing them and eventually they will distribute world wide. When they do they will be eligible. Not before.
ReplyDeleteThe Streamys is an award show. So now you are saying that awards should be given on the basis of economic need?
mm, the problem is, by stating that a creator is 'restricting the free flow of information on the internet', you are essentially vilifying the creators themselves and tarnishing them as people who wish to bring down the internet.
ReplyDeleteThey aren't. You've openly stated that you don't really care if creators choose to geoblock. So stop making them seem evil for doing so.
Along those same lines, the Streamy's are allowed to make their own rules. They (like the creators) have a right to choose how to hold their award show.
...calling them 'sell outs' because they choose to judge content based on it's production quality instead of it's geographical location is demeaning and foolish.
International is defined as between or among nations; involving two or more nations. USA and Canada. Okay?
ReplyDeleteAs for China, Google has the right idea. Do no evil.
ReplyDeleteI have never defended China, in fact quite the reverse. Censorship does not benefit anyone and China certainly does not respect the www.
That said, I did sign up for the Chinese version of Youtube.
How many Chinese series do you have submitted to the Streamys?
My point here is that we need to start looking at the Streamys as the best of the World. Not the best of the USA. Not the LA favorites. Not the shows that will benefit Tubefilter. The best of the World Wide Web. And to represent the spirit and intent of the www a web series should be available globally.
For example parts of Reservoir Hill were geolocked and while we tried to syndicate it here on the blog it essentially made the show useless. That is not what the www represents to me. That is not what i want out of an award winning show.
But hey, let the Academy do it their way. I am sure all that win their regional awards will be very very happy.
Meanwhile I will be watching the best of the World on Youtube. And to all who cant watch shows outside the USA, don't blame me, blame those who took this stand on behalf of geoblocking.
Are the Streamy Awards that important that not including their show in the awards make the creators change their mind about geoblocking?
ReplyDeleteI am not vilifying web series creators. In fact I dare you to ask anyone in the community and you will find out I have been very supportive of web series creators. Go ahead, I double dare you.
ReplyDeleteThis is not about the creators. In fact, if you look you will see I have commented on every episode of The Bannen Way so far and that is a geolocked show. So, I have nothing against that or other shows that have been geolocked. Their creators have made marketing decisions and once they have made their show eligible the the world they should be eligible for a world wide award. Not before.
Joe, if it was the 436 then clearly that would matter. But no, Sony, CBS and all the other geoblockers of the World combined don't even come close to the power of the 436. Not even in the same league.
ReplyDeleteFrom Wikipedia:
ReplyDelete"The Internet is a global system of interconnected computer networks."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Www
Now, do I have to explain what the world global means too anon?
:):):)
MM, come ON. Quit repeated the same defeated arguments. The Streamy's never CLAIMED to be the 'Best of the World'
ReplyDeletethey can run the awards show their way. So quit treating them like crap for doing so.
I don't get it. Their policy on geoblocking is the same this year as last year. Last year it wasn't even an issue, and half the people didn't even know WTH 'geoblocking' was.
ReplyDeleteLet's get real: the ONLY reason people are bringing this up is because of TBW
And only because it's good.
If a crappy series filmed on a webcam in a guy's basement was geoblocked and tried to get nominated, no one would really care.
But the ONLY reason this is even an issue is because TBW is actually REALLY GOOD...and people are looking for a way to keep it from winning.
The day people start looking for technicalities to disqualify entries because the entry is just too good...is the day people forget the reason behind award shows in the first place: to AWARD people for great technical achievements. Not to punish them because of how they chose to advertise their product.
Anon out.
Let's be very careful about this. This is NOT about Bannen Way and it's NOT about Crackle. To be fair, they are not alone. I'm relatively sure that Xbox (home of The Guild) geo filters and Xbox is certainly a closed environment.
ReplyDeleteAnon, I have repeatedly said that Tubefilter and the Academy can run the Streamys any way they want. That does not mean that the community has to like it or agree with it. That does not mean we should not express our opinions. That does not mean we should not expose their hypocrisy.
ReplyDeleteYou may not agree, anon but that does not make you right and it is entirely possible that history will prove me correct.
The question now becomes who controls the Academy. Who do they truely represent. And, what values will the Streamys stand for. As stated in the introduction to the post the issues go far beyond geolocking.
Who is going to discuss these issues with the community on Anchor Cove and other venues. Or, are we expected to just accept what is dished out by this "elite group" of individuals?
Perhaps it is time for an internet town hall meeting for the entire world wide web series community so that we can all discuss issues of concern with the organizers of the Streamys.
...let me know how that 'World Wide Web Town Hall Meeting' goes, and you'll see EXACTLY why geoblocking is a GOOD thing. ;)
ReplyDeleteActually its pretty arrogant to think that
ReplyDeleteBannen was the only good series that was geoblocked in 2009. Bannen may not even be the best series that was geoblocked.
That is just absurd. I object to geoblocked shows being given a world wide award no matter where they come from. Time after time when these shows appear I hear complains from international associates. This does not build a world wide community. It simply plays to the antiquated and bankrupt nation state view of the world.
If Sony, CBS and other companies want to port those practices to the www then so be it, but it does not mean we have to embrace them and endow them with awards that would be better earned by those who embrace the world wide community.
As said time and time again, when the geoblocking is removed and the series is available to the world wide community would be the appropriate time for a show to be considered eligible.
Using your model of openness, how do you suggest people pay for the production of their shows? You've eliminated a majority of distributors, most brands are not interested in global campaigns and studios, networks or anyone trying to provide "significant" funding will not be able to afford to do so as you're concept eliminates large revenue streams (foreign sales) which are used to provide financing for some of these projects.
ReplyDeleteBasically it keeps the web series as the poor bastard step child to traditional media.
Furthermore, the Streamys are expensive to produce and operate. To reduce the production value of content appearing (unless someone is personally wealthy) only diminishes the viability of the award show's success.
You're correct, the fans can correct this. You can easily boycott submitting your content to the Streamys and submit to the Webbies or any of I have imagine a dozen award shows out there around the globe. But no one gains from that.
What we are suggesting is an open dialogue between the organizers of the Streamys and the world wide web series community.
ReplyDeleteThat way we could openly explore how the Streamys could better serve the needs and desires of the entire community to have a web series award show that truely represents everyones opinion.
Not my opinion. Not your opinion, anon. Not the opinion of an elite group that is largely LA-based. But rather the views of the entire global community involved with web series.
Is that too unreasonable to ask for?
...yes. because they aren't (nor have they claimed to be) a community based award show. They're an academy show.
ReplyDeleteAlso, are you trying to say that some web series will NEVER be distributed world wide and will ALWAYS remain regionally locked?
ReplyDeleteUp to this point my assumption has been that we would expect most web series to eventually be available world wide and at that point they would be eligible. How is that destroying distribution.
This is an award show based on merit. It is up to the individual series to figure out their marketing plans and how they recoup their expenses. How is that related to the criteria for being admitted to a world wide web series award show?
Hey anon, we can continue this over on Anchor Cove if you prefer. I know a few of the people there would really appreciate this debate.
ReplyDeleteOK?
"They're an academy show."
ReplyDeleteSurely you mean they are a group of individuals assembled by Tubefilter. Lets just call a duck a duck.
See you on Anchor Cove.
To clarify, I'm not all of the anonymous posts, just a majority ;-)
ReplyDeleteAnchor Cove seems way to insular and opinionated and not interested in meaningful dialogue but making a case.
When people start out by amassing support of the community to vote lock step that's not a supportive community and not about the content, that's about making a statement.
It's really disheartening to see what's going over there and so much of it aimed at TBW.
No one mentions their beloved Guild which is financed by Microsoft and Sprint and earns the creators a lot of money.
(btw, a nit pick, but the creators of TBW have been quoted as saying it was not anywhere near a $1m budget but people on Anchor Bay choose to repeat that it's a $1m budget which leads me to believe their not interested in facts but making statements).
Nice chatting.
Sorry and lastly, to be very clear, I'm a huge fan of The Guild and very happy for their success. I wish everyone that success. I just find the show treated so differently because of the perception that it came up thru the ranks and other did not (which couldn't be further from the truth).
ReplyDeleteMM — you wrote this over at AnchorCove:
ReplyDelete==== Start Modelmotion ====
Level 26 videos are only available if you buy the book and essentially pay for the code (OK dont laugh all you peepz who know the secret sauce). That is a pay per view model. I have not said here that Level 26 should not be eligible for the Streamys. As long as it is distributed World wide, it meets the criteria of being on the internet.
Perhaps the Streamys is just not an award show about web series on the internet, or the World Wide Web. That is the simple answer. Its a private club that views videos in private and does not care about the world wide community. Good luck StreamysUSA!
==== End Modelmotion ====
But, by your definition, Level 26 MUST BE EXCLUDED, because the book is not available for purchase globally.
Nor is a series that is subscription based and uses PayPal as a payment method. In certain countries in the world, you can't use PayPal.
Nor is a series distributed on YouTube — which is blocked in certain countries.
Plus, who is supposed to keep track of when a series is available globally, and when it is geoblocked?
It sounds to me that all you want to do is prevent creators from actually making a living producing content.
Which means big media wins. Which sucks.
That doesn't make sense.
As some one who professes to love this space, you are doing more damage to it than anyone else.
What a shame.
Sounds like you should just not watch the Streamys and go watch the Webby Awards, which sound a lot more like your cup of tea.
Or, better yet, go back to watching cable and leave the rest of us alone.
No one has ever said a show should not make money. In fact we all hope shows will find funding based on the quality of the show. Profit is not the issue.
ReplyDeleteThe issue here is geolocking and the Streamys
If you want to expand that further there are a number of issues involving the Streamys that have been discussed on Tubefilter, Newteevee and Taryn O Neill's site. There are many individual opinions on Anchor Cove as well as the other sites so there is no gang bashing any show or the Streamys in general.
What we are asking is that Tubefilter and the Streamys pull back the veil and discuss their matters in an open and even forum. They can try to keep it an "elite group" but you can feel the community wants more communication out of the Streamys organization and it is up to them to come out of "hiding" and talk to us
Now you might say that the community has no role in the Streamys. That is simply not true. Even the Streamys response to this issue, wrong as it might be, is a response to community action. Clearly the community has a vital role and the community voice needs to be heard and actually become an active part of the Streamy organization and decision making process.
When i wrote the Level 26 post I was under the impression that the book was available globally but I had not researched it. If your facts are correct then clearly the exact same criteria would apply.
ReplyDeleteIf there is one thing I am it is consistent in the way I look at the world wide web.
I am not a fan of walled gardens either but there is nothing I can do to stop them. The marketplace will take care of that.
What I am saying is that there needs to be an open and honest discussion of this geoblocking and related issues so that all opinions are heard fairly without threats of being black balled by an elite group.
As for destroying the "space" I will stand by my record here on this blog. We were posting shows like "Pink" long before it was an award winning show. We were posting "Ozgirl" long before it was an award winning show.
ReplyDeleteSo Anon, you might want to check the facts before you go around throwing out idle claims of destroying the space.
I just think we should have an award show that is accountable to the community in the same way that this blog is accountable to the community it serves. That may not be your vision of an Awards show. That may not be Tubefilters vision of an award show. That may not be the Streamys. But it what I want in an award show that represents web series on the World Wide Web.
How are you or this blog 'accountable' when you won't even show your face or your name?
ReplyDeleteYou are, by definition, a hypester:
"What is a hypester? (Not to be confused with a hipster - which is a very strangely fanciful and occasionally delightful creature!) A hypester is a snarky little Negative Ned/Nancy who uses all avenues of the internet — be it a comment board, blog, Twitter, Facebook, etc.- to try and start sh*t cuz it’s entertaining. These emotional/psychic vampires utilize or create hype to provoke a reaction out of an internet personality, start a flame war or some weird little feud over a trivial opinion, an email taken out of context or a quirk that they’ve re-cropped w/ their literary, gossip-driven Photoshop to be a personal offense. The KEY CLUE IS HYPE. For they almost never use solid evidence or reality as a means to sway one’s opinion."
As was mentioned on StoryGas a blog about web series in the UK this blog is run by the contributors and is accountable to the community. They determine the standards of what is posted on the blog and when something has crossed the line.
ReplyDeleteIt is a collaborative blog where each poster is accountable for the content they post and if the community thinks content is not appropriate they will let the poster know.
Anon, you can throw all the insults you want. We even give you that freedom. What it does not change is the central issues I have made about the Streamys and you have yet to knock one concrete hole in my argument.
I am not trying to sway your opinion Anon. I simply see the issue in a different light. I have clearly stated what I think and why I think it. I have suggested what needs to take place and proposed a mechanism for that to happen.
ReplyDeleteNow if you are a member of the Academy then perhaps you can take the message back to the secret den and share it with the rest of your band. If not I guess we are both out in the cold trying to get our voice heard.
For the record anon this blog is run by one simple rule: "Do no harm". That is our prime directive.
ReplyDeleteBeyond that Anon, contributor and commenters are left to their own devices.
'Do No Harm'
ReplyDelete...unless, of course, you're accusing someone of selling out.
While we are at it lets just take a look at the make up of the board of directors of the Streamys:
ReplyDeleteMichael Wayne
Chairman
Dina Kaplan
Vice Chair:
George Ruiz
Secretary
Drew Baldwin
Brady Brim DeForest
Joshua Cohen
Felicia Day
Marc Hustvedt
Mo Koyfman
John McCarus
Jamison Tilsner
Clearly they are a distinguished group of individuals who have contributed a great deal to the "space". However we do not currently know if this was the group who made the actual decision or the process by which the decision was contemplated and arrived at.
Ahh so many different "Anonymous" bloggers now. For the record, I'm the Original Anon and these past few posts are not me.
ReplyDeleteNot that I'm of note in this discussion, I just want to make sure that the dialogue I was having earlier is differentiated from the newer discussion.
No opinions of point of views beyond that.
Orig Anon.
The title of the post was
ReplyDelete"Have The Streamy Awards Sold Out?"
Normally a question mark at the end of the sentence indicates a question. Normally questions are invites to discuss something. When has discussing something openly and fairly been considered doing harm?
The Streamys had the opportunity to make a decision. My opinion is that they made the wrong decision and that was motived by self interest. The purpose of this discussion is to examine that proposition and decide if the decision that was made is actually in line with what the community would like to see in an awards show. If you think that is harmful then you have a pretty strange definition of harm.
Lets get this clear anon. I have nothing against the Streamys. It is a nice little show and perhaps with some community involvement it could grow into something that would be more meaningful.
ReplyDeleteHowever I was perfectly clear where I stood on this issue before the decision was made. I made every effort to make sure they were fully informed of community opinion. Yet they still made the decision they did. I am simply not going to bend my opinion that they are wrong because it is inconvenient for Tubefilter or the Streamys. They need to be accountable to the community.
There have been valid arguments made on both sides here. I just firmly believe that in order to protect the long term development of web series on the world wide web as an open and free platform the Streamys needs to take a stand. Their reluctance to do so puts in question the motives for their decision making and it is up to them to provide some transparency in the way they reached this decision.
Clearly what we all see as a result of this is that there is a need to open up the Streamys so that it is more aware and responsive to issues that are raised by the community. The community needs to have a voice in how the Streamys are run and the decisions they make.
However if they fail to listened to the community it will be unfortunate. I sincerely hope it does not come to that and given some of the fine members on the board of the Streamys I hope they will take quick action to put the Streamys on a better path for the future.
Those who have been ignored by big media or treated like crap salute you, MM.
ReplyDeleteThe only ones who are operating out of fear right now are the ones with something to lose. Most of us have no profit yet and no way of getting it. So we give it away on the web.
I have a life long love of movies and series. A degree in film and a deep knowledge of the business and of storytelling and production. I still never got to get "in."
Other people's work I love and I love doing my own work. But I cant even afford an ad for my show on a website now. I cant get a meeting. I have no gain other than making the show and nothing to lose because the elite have withheld everything from me for years.
I say let the whole thing fail just as it is.
ANON says: how do you suggest people pay for the production of their shows?
WITH YOUR OWN PERSONAL MONEY LIKE WE DID AND BE PREPARED TO LOSE IT ALL IF YOU WANT TO DO IT AND DONT EXPECT IT BACK JUST WATCH THE SHOW WHEN ITS DONE THATS THE POINT.
You've eliminated a majority of distributors,
GOOD.
most brands are not interested in global campaigns
THANK GOD. WHAT DO "BRANDS" HAVE TO DO WITH STORYTELLING. AD AGENCIES ARE SCUM AND ADVERTISERS LIE FOR A LIVING SO I GUESS THATS A KIND OF STORYTELLING, SURE.
and studios, networks or anyone trying to provide "significant" funding will not be able to afford to do so as you're concept eliminates large revenue streams (foreign sales) which are used to provide financing for some of these projects.
I AM OKAY WITH THAT. YES. ESP ANYONE WHO GETS LARGE REVENUE STREAMS FOR A WEB SERIES THAT ISNT MINE. SINCE NO ONE WILL LET ME IN THE DOOR TO ASK FOR " SIGNIFICANT FUNDING" OF ANYTHING I WANT TO DO I'M GOOD WITH THAT. NOT CAUSE ITS A BAD SHOW I DID (THEY NEVER BOTHER TO SEE IT, SO THAT CANT BE IT) ITS BECAUSE I AM NOT IN THE CLUB ALREADY.
Basically it keeps the web series as the poor bastard step child to traditional media.
FROM YOUR LIPS TO...IF ONLY THIS COULD HAPPEN THINK OF ALL THE GREAT THINGS THAT WOULD BE ALLOWED TO INCUBATE WITHOUT WORK-SHOPPING, TESTING, NAMES, INTERFERENCE, BEING OFFENSIVE TO THE BRANDS and/or BEHOLDEN to something or someone who knows nothing about entertaining people.
>>>Furthermore, the Streamys are expensive to produce and operate. To reduce the production value of content appearing (unless someone is personally wealthy) only diminishes the viability of the award show's success.
UNLESS SUCCESS IS DEFINED AS REWARDING CHEAP, SELF-PRODUCED WEB SERIES BY ANONYMOUS PEOPLE WHO DESERVE IT. Let it all go down the tubes because it is already being stripped away and controlled by someone who doesn't want me or most of you. DONT YOU SEE ONCE THERE IS A CLEAR WAY TO MAKE A LOT OF MONEY ON WEB SERIES YOU WONT GET TO MAKE THEM ANYMORE? UNLESS YOU "PASS" "KNOW THE RIGHT PERSON" OR ARE RICH OR "IN THE CLUB" HAVE YOU TRIED TO GET YOUR FINISHED PROJECT AIRED ON NATIONAL TV FOR AN HOUR RECENTLY? DISTRIBUTED BY PARAMOUNT AFTER THE FILM IS DONE EXACTLY HOW YOU WANT IT? DIDNT THINK SO.
PUT IT ON THE WEB EVERYONE CAN SEE IT.
Then we'll see who wants to keep doing it for no money, but because they just need to, that have something they just want to do online and will, who will be willing to work like crazy and know what its like to be still broke and mostly anonymous going into it up front. THAT WILL WEED THEM OUT FAST. FINE, LEAVE THE WEB SERIES TO THE DREAMER LUNATICS WITH NO BUSINESS SENSE AND NO EXPECTATION OF LARGE REVENUE STREAMS AND FIX THE MESS YOUVE MADE OF TELEVISION.
I AM FINE WITH THAT.
You'll have with a great piece of entertainment at the end of your labors if you're any good, you've done it. You worked just as hard as they did to produce it in the media conglomerate, maybe harder, but you didnt get the breaks, now would a VP or a business be willing to give it up and go back to that to do a show?
LOUD NOISES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
ReplyDeleteAs someone who posts a lot of videos on this blog the one comment that I really fear is "I cannot view this video" in XYZ country".
ReplyDeleteUnfortunately those were on the rise in 2009.
The internet is under attack from many directions. We have nation states trying to control it within their borders: think of China as the prime violator in that case.
We have companies that want to create a multi-tier system where those who can pay will get priority on the internet.
Then we have geoblocking; an attempt by some companies to force their failing business models on a world wide community that has grown up free to exchange content and ideas around the world. Geoblocking might not be evil per se but it does "break the internet". It violates the notion of a global space.
Do i understand the motives of those who choose to sell out to geoblocking. Sure. They want funding and have to jump through hoops created by those who choose to live in the past. Thats fine. Thats your choice. But don't pretend you are a web series, or an award show about web series, because web stand for "World Wide Web" not Geoblocked Web Series. When you choose to remove the geoblocking you will enter into the web space and I will be the first to welcome you. Till then I wish you the best of economic success within your little geoblocked walled garden.
If the Streamys want to be a show about Geoblocked Digital Series then so be it. Hey I will even contribute the logo to their show. That is their choice. But please, do not pretend to be a an award show about web series if you refuse to respect what the web in the name "web series" stands for.
MM, you claim to be representing what the community wants, yet you are the only one here I see arguing your point. Maybe you need to take a step back and see if what the ACTUAL community wants really lines up with what you have just spent more posts than imaginable arguing for.
ReplyDeleteEveryone deserves a say and what MM has been discussing sounds very logical and fair. He is asking for open dialogue, is that too much to ask?
ReplyDeleteI do not represent the community.
ReplyDeleteThe community is made up of individuals, each of whose opinion I respect and try and listen to even when I am being attacked.
I signed the original post mm.
I also stated that there are a wide plurality of opinions in the community.
However, I do believe that the web series community wants a voice in their own future and part of that would include having a voice on any award show that deals with web series.
This is a new world where communities have been empowered in a way that simply was not possible in the TV and film eras. We should live in the present and not try and re-create the past.
What is very clear is that the status quo is not working and we need change in the way that the Streamys is run and controlled so that it better reflects the opinions within the community.
Well if your goal is simply an open dialogue, then congrats, you have done that. Now that you have, it is time to stop bitching because if, as you say, your goal is not to influence people towards your POV but just to have a dialogue, you have no purpose in continuing to argue.
ReplyDeleteWell we still have to hear directly from the Academy and Tubefilter on how they propose to create an open discussion with the community regarding the Streamys and how the community can participate directly in the decision making process.
ReplyDeleteHopefully, however, that is in the works.
Why do you feel that the Streamy's are accountable to you? You don't pay them. They have every right to make decisions internally. It's not a community awards show it's an academy one and as the academy they can choose their own rules for submissions.
ReplyDeleteMeanwhile, the community has had their say and the majority agrees with the Streamy's decision so I'm not sure what need for a big dialogue between the academy and the community there is on this topic.
The Streamys, the Academy, and Tubefilter are all free to decide if and when they choose to interact and listen to the community. They already did try to address the geoblocking problem but there are a a number of other issues currently being discussed on Anchor Cove.
ReplyDeleteLike it or not they will ultimately be held accountable by the community. We all are. Some have made the mistake of not listening an involving the community and they have suffered the consequences.
However I do respect everyones freedom to make poor choices.
For the record this is NEWANONYMOUS.
ReplyDeleteModelmotion I agree that the community should have a voice and that the creators, the IAWTV, Tubefilter, etc., are all accountable to the community.
There are a lot of stakeholders here, but I think it is clear that the community is being listened to. I imagine, that's why the post was made in the first place.
But, at this early stage in the growth of the industry, we need the Streamy Awards to be a success. It will benefit all of us.
So please, if you love this space as much as you say you do, criticize all you want, but do it constructively. And don't automatically assume that there is a conspiracy to pander to studios.
I think that the purpose of allowing Geoblocked content is to allow all shows a chance to compete. That is waaaaaayyyy more open then what you are suggesting.
MSN.com video content is NOT available globally. Nor is Hulu content, nor is YouTube content.
That means that The Guild would have to be excluded. As would Dr. Horrible's Sing-Along Blog. As would hundreds of other shows.
That results in petty bickering about rules, and not a focus on amazing content.
Enforcing the kind of rule that you are proposing would only lead to more rigidity after all. You're almost asking for a return to a closed system like television. Imagine how difficult it would be to travel to 192 countries in the world to determine if a show is indeed available or not.
Plus, practicality says that there would only have to be a small window (say 1 month) where the content would have to be "unblocked" while the IAWTV sent out their inspectors around the globe to determine if the content was actually available. (plus, imagein how much that would cost!!!!)
This just recreates the 'sweeps' from a bygone era of television.
Tell me, how does that move our space forward?
I simply believe in the www and what it means.
ReplyDeleteIf the Streamys do not use the term web series then they can clearly do what they want, but web stands for World Wide Web and when you use the name you should abide by the principles.
If it is about web series then they should be available on the World Wide Web and not the Geolocked Regional Space. It is that simple.
As for whether or not I love the "space" I stand by may record here on this blog for having supported web series and their creators. You might try asking around and finding out just how many we have supported.
ReplyDeleteI think he whole issue would lie down and die if we threw out the idea of "geoblocking" and introduced the idea of "geobilling". How about instead of geo blocking, the creators make continue to make the show available globally on a pay per view basis. Then the content creator could market to regional distributors, advertisors etc to sell them the ability to sponsor distributioin to a region. Once a regional distributor is acquired, the show could be delivered for free in that region (or through another distribution channel), but other regions would still get straight from the creator at a fee.
ReplyDeleteThat way everyone can still see the show - its just a matter of whether of not they have to pay for it and how much.
Content creators remain free to negotiate different regional distribution agreements.
Interesting idea anon.
ReplyDeleteThe problem is that Tubefilter, the Streamys and the academy seem to want to hold onto the notion that a web series should be treated like conventional TV and forget that we are talking about the World Wide Web. If they want to follow the TV model they should just drop the name "web" from their awards and move back into the industrial age where TV was moulded. The world we live in today is the World Wide Web and you either respect what the words stand for or you don't in terms of the Streamys.
The exact model is up to the producers and studios to figure out but as long as they hang onto the geoblocking idea they are simply not on the World Wide Web and cannot be considered a web series award show........ a regionally geoblocked broadband series award show perhaps, but certainly not a World Wide Web series award show.